EP226: Is the Surprise Billing Gold Rush Screeching to a Halt?, With Devon Herrick, PhD, Health Economist and Policy Analyst
May 02, 2019
226
32:47

EP226: Is the Surprise Billing Gold Rush Screeching to a Halt?, With Devon Herrick, PhD, Health Economist and Policy Analyst

Surprise billing … it sounds like so much fun. Who doesn’t love a surprise? Except receiving a surprise bill is zero fun. In case you’ve been out of the loop on this, surprise billing is when the patient, unbeknownst to them, racks up out-of-network charges, usually at a hospital. The patient may have done absolutely everything right—selected an in-network hospital, got all their tests preapproved—and then, wham! A month or a year later, the patient gets a bill that could be a few hundred dollars or a few hundred thousand dollars, usually from someone they’ve never heard of. And that’s an important point. The vast majority of physicians out there, especially the ones with relationships with patients, don’t surprise bill.

Unfortunately, surprise billing isn’t a one-off random event: 54% of Americans have received a surprise bill. And that 54% of Americans … not happy about it. So unhappy, as a matter of fact, that lots of legislation is pending to curtail the practice.

Surprise billing has been identified as a solid barrier to access and to patients who need care getting it. Patients fear the looming threat of having their bank account emptied out no matter how diligent and smart and well insured they are. Why does surprise billing—or balance billing, as it’s usually called by those engaging in it—continue when it’s so clearly a problem for patients?

If you read a recent Brookings Institute report, you’d have discovered that surprise billing is a lucrative gambit for some, certainly not all, hospitals. It’s especially lucrative in, but not limited to, emergency rooms (ERs). So much money can be raked in from incapacitated or, at a minimum, injured patients, in fact, that certain ER-staffing companies have turned surprise billing into a business model. If you follow me on LinkedIn, you’d know that I wrote an article about this on Medium recently.

Today I speak with Devon Herrick, PhD, who is an expert in surprise billing. Devon is a health care economist and public policy analyst who has authored many articles on surprise billing. You’ll find some links in the show notes. Devon is also an adviser to the Heartland Institute, which is a free-market think tank. I find it incredibly thought provoking that a free-market think tank, for reasons we discuss in this podcast, finds unfettered market-driven surprise billing as egregious as the most progressive socialists do. Handshaking across aisles everywhere.

If you’re a hospital or insurance carrier executive, what are you doing right now in light of all this public attention and legislation? I hope your response includes actions to protect your patients—and not just an industry-centric lobbying effort.

 

You can learn more and connect with Devon on Twitter at @DevonHerrick or on Facebook at Devon Herrick.  

 Devon M. Herrick, PhD, is a health economist and former hospital accountant. He is currently a health policy adviser for the Chicago-based Heartland Institute. Dr. Herrick worked for the Dallas-based National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) for 21 years until it ceased operations in 2017. He also served two terms as chair of the Health Economics Roundtable of the National Association for Business Economics (NABE).

Dr. Herrick focuses on health insurance issues, including state health care regulations, federal health reform, managed care, Medicare, Medicaid, and the uninsured. He also researches issues such as consumer-driven health care, telemedicine, medical tourism, pharmaceutical economics, and emerging trends in retail medicine.

While with NCPA, Dr. Herrick authored more than 100 studies and papers based on his research. Dr. Herrick is a sought-after speaker on health policy issues and is quoted widely in the press, including on radio and television. He has testified before Congress and numerous state legislative hearings and meetings. His articles and comments have appeared in hundreds of newspapers across the country. He is a coauthor, with John C. Goodman and Gerald L. Musgrave, of Lives at Risk: Single-Payer National Health Insurance Around the World.

Dr. Herrick began his career in health care as a staff accountant with Baylor University Medical Center (Dallas) in 1986. He later transferred to Baylor Center for Restorative Care, where he worked as an accounting manager.

Prior to joining NCPA, Dr. Herrick was a research assistant at the Bruton Center for Development Studies at the University of Texas at Dallas (UTD). The Bruton Center integrates geographic information systems, spatial analysis, and exploratory data analysis in the social sciences, applying research on trends, forces, and public policy. While a teaching assistant, Dr. Herrick also taught the economics of health at UTD.

While pursuing a doctorate in 1995, Herrick came to the National Center for Policy Analysis as a policy intern. He subsequently became manager of information systems and later the research manager. Dr. Herrick was a senior fellow at NCPA from 2003 to 2017.


03:33 How common surprise billing, or balance billing, actually is.
03:55 The statistics behind how pervasive surprising bills are.
04:49 Balance billing vs business law.
05:55 Why patients fear hospitals.
06:27 How transparency can solve the problem of balance bills.
06:50 “If there’s no meeting of the minds, it’s not an enforceable contract.”
07:27 How to solve surprise billing in ERs.
09:32 The tipping point of surprise bills.
10:32 The negative incentive in stopping this problem.
11:11 “Health care is similar to a gold rush.”
13:26 Is there spillover into other financial models?
13:50 What doctors think of surprise billing.
16:14 How surprise billing became a default practice to begin with.
19:50 “Hospitals can wield more power than they realize.”
21:07 How balance billing affects insurance carriers.
22:15 Doctor fees vs hospital fees.
23:28 “Someone’s prices are going up.”
24:09 “It’s partly based on opportunity.”
26:00 Devon’s advice to insurance companies on eliminating balance billing.
31:18 Devon’s consulting practice.

You can learn more and connect with Devon on Twitter at @DevonHerrick or on Facebook at Devon Herrick.  

healthcare,payment,billing,surprise billing,heartland institute,national center for policy analysis,
|
|

Episode Support Provided By

Special Thanks to Our 2026 Sustaining Monthly Donors

Marilyn Bartlett, Kimberly Carleson, Dylan Yahn, Benjamin Light, Matt McQuide, Ann Kempski, Spencer Allen, Scott Tromanhauser, 
Steven Elkins, Matthew Bunte, and Lori Smith.

Recent Episodes

EP533: Level Funding Is Self-funding: 5 Avoidable Contract Risks, With Frank Pennachio
Relentless Health ValueOctober 14, 2026
533
37:1334.07 MB

EP533: Level Funding Is Self-funding: 5 Avoidable Contract Risks, With Frank Pennachio

Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Thanks for hanging with me today to talk about a bunch of things. One of them being what exactly are level-funded plans, and what are the upsides, and then what are the risks? Because here's the thing. I was talking to an employer the other day, an employer w...

EP532: Why Avoidable ER Visits Aren't the Real Cost Problem: Revisiting Our 2016 Interview With HHS Nominee Chris Klomp
Relentless Health ValueOctober 07, 2026
532
37:2034.17 MB

EP532: Why Avoidable ER Visits Aren't the Real Cost Problem: Revisiting Our 2016 Interview With HHS Nominee Chris Klomp

Listen on Your Favorite App Today we are dipping into the archives for an essential replay from 2016, one decade ago, featuring Chris Klomp back when he served as CEO of a company called Collective Medical. With the nomination of Chris Klomp to serve as deputy secretary of the Department of Health a...

EP531: Slaying the Three-Headed Monster of Health Plan Networks, With Evan Anderson
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 30, 2026
531
38:0634.88 MB

EP531: Slaying the Three-Headed Monster of Health Plan Networks, With Evan Anderson

Listen on Your Favorite App Today, Evan Anderson and I are talking about carrier networks, how they started, how it's going. Because irrespective of whatever the plan was at the very beginning, any given network, especially talking about the big status quo networks, has evolved into what I'll call a...

EP530: A Wildly Underappreciated Point: Overpaying for Infusions Means Overpaying for Stop-Loss Coverage, With Jake Velie and Keith Hartman, RPh
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 23, 2026
530
37:4534.56 MB

EP530: A Wildly Underappreciated Point: Overpaying for Infusions Means Overpaying for Stop-Loss Coverage, With Jake Velie and Keith Hartman, RPh

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Thanks for hanging with me this week. When a self-insured plan sponsor sees an infusion claim hit their high-cost case report, and a lot of these infusions are really expensive, so many of them hit the high-cost claim report. For a...

EP529: How Stark Law, Stipends, and Noncompetes Drive Hospital Consolidation, With Eric Bricker, MD
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 16, 2026
529
39:2936.14 MB

EP529: How Stark Law, Stipends, and Noncompetes Drive Hospital Consolidation, With Eric Bricker, MD

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Hey, thanks for being here with me every week, some of you every single Thursday. Give yourself a little round of applause, maybe silently and in your own head, depending on where you are. But yeah, you matter. You being here matte...

EP528: The Current State of Primary Care—Inevitable or Fixable? Will It Be Private Equity to the Rescue? With Yashaswini Singh, PhD
Relentless Health ValueSeptember 09, 2026
528
38:4935.53 MB

EP528: The Current State of Primary Care—Inevitable or Fixable? Will It Be Private Equity to the Rescue? With Yashaswini Singh, PhD

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. Here's the backstory for this episode. Remember episode 519 with Lisa Rosenbaum, MD, where we played a high-stakes kind of game show called "Is the Current State of Primary Care an Absolute Inevitability, or Is It a Needless, Subop...

EP526: Generic Compliance Ratios, Pass-Through Contracts, and Other Pharmacy Plumbing, With Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl
Relentless Health ValueAugust 26, 2026
526
20:1119.06 MB

EP526: Generic Compliance Ratios, Pass-Through Contracts, and Other Pharmacy Plumbing, With Mark Cuban and Cora Opsahl

Listen on Your Favorite App Hello, all you Relentless Tribe members. If you have listened to this show for any length of time, you know one of our favorite truths around here, which is where there's mystery, there's margin. But today, we aren't just here to point out the mystery. We're here to look ...

Listen and Follow

Sponsored by Aventria Health Group
©2026 BD Bridges LLC. All Rights Reserved.